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+--- Thread: Alien Narcissus *Completed* (/thread-2586.html)
Alien Narcissus *Completed* - NS4 - 11-25-2016
I am currently working on a model of the Narcissus from Alien and thought I might share some of my work.
I have spent the past few years collecting reference images and information and I now think I am at the point where I can make a start!
The initilal issue with trying to build this particular model is that of reference.
The ship went over to the US for display with a number of other models and props to promote the movie, and unfortunately was never seen again.
This means there is zero possiblity of getting any photos or reference that isn't at least 30 odd years old. Thankfully, the guys in the model shop were pretty keen to document thier work and there are dozens of WIP photos "out there".
I have been scouring the net for the past few years and have what I believe is all the reference that is publically available (and not in private collections).
For this build, I want to make it as accurate to the original as can be. After seeing a number of projects over on the RPF utilising photogrammetry, I was keen to see if I could use the technology for this build. Unfortunately, it turns out that it is not possible... With the model no longer around and the existing photos not of a high enough quality and quantity to be usable and the fact that they are film based images which have probably been scanned/cropped/modified, means that it is just not a viable option.
I took another approach... I built a 3D model, and used the known kit parts as reference for the initial scaling. Once this was done, I then imported the model into sketchup and attempted to match the exact angle and focal length of the photos to the model (using it's rather niffty "photomatch" utility). Having done this, it is then a matter of tweaking the model a mm at a time and re-matching it to the photos. Now that all sounds simple, but I have "tweaked" close to 200 versions of the model now over a period of months, BUT I do have it matched very closely to no less than 24 separate reference images. As it current sits, this is only for the main "body" of the ship, but its amazing how much I am able to pick up regarding its geometry and how it was constructed. You can see areas of the model which should be symetrical, but clearly were not (see the nose on the last photo as an example) - not surprising considering this is a hand fabricated model made 30 years ago!. BUT, this technique will allow me to match even these "oddities" exactly.
Now that the main body is complete/matched, it is now a fairly simple (if time consuming) exersize of adding all the styrene/plasticard and kit parts to the model and adjusting the sizing and positions to align with the photos.
When it's done, I don't believe it would be possible to get it any more accurate without actually having access to the original model.
Some screen shots of the 3D model (in yellow) photo matched and overlayed on the reference photos to illustrate:
[attachment=18224]
[attachment=18225]
[attachment=18226]
[attachment=18227]
[attachment=18228]
[attachment=18229]
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 11-30-2016
Starting to add the plasticard/styrene plating and a few kit parts to the 3D model now and carfully matching them to the references...
[attachment=18232]
[attachment=18231]
RE: Alien Narcissus - Scott Graham - 12-01-2016
Nice work!
RE: Alien Narcissus - LeeS - 12-07-2016
Excellent progress so far!!
Having build one (with the massive help of Paul, Simon, and Martyn) I know both the fun and frustration of this ship :-)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lee_stringer/albums/72157631306129604
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 12-07-2016
(12-01-2016, 07:48 AM)Scott Graham Wrote: Nice work!
Thanks Scott - I was beginning to think I was talking to myself!
(12-07-2016, 07:27 AM)LeeS Wrote: Excellent progress so far!!
Having build one (with the massive help of Paul, Simon, and Martyn) I know both the fun and frustration of this ship :-)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lee_stringer/albums/72157631306129604
Thank you Lee - I'm very familliar with your gorgeous ship, having followed the build since the begining over on the RPF.
I regularly do a google search in the hope of finding new references and always see your ship featured in the results
It certainly is a large undertaking that's for sure - just gathering all the information has taken years - literally!
Will continue to add to the model now (although I have had a bit of a break), and will post progress as I go.
Thanks for the interest guys!
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 08-21-2017
Had a bit of a break, but I have been making progress on the model over the past few weeks.
All the styrene has now been added and matched to the reference photos.
There have been many tweaks/revisions/iterations to get the this stage.
I think it's very close to being as accurate as I can make it (taking into account that I'm trying to match a hand made model)
And here is where it stands today (the yellow outline is my overlayed 3D model):
[attachment=18798]
[attachment=18799]
[attachment=18800]
[attachment=18801]
The next step is to add digital versions of all the kit parts.
I have many of them modelled, but still some work to do there...
RE: Alien Narcissus - Tsophika - 08-25-2017
That looks fantastic! I can't wait to see this built. Well done.
Craig
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 08-25-2017
Thanks Craig!
It's taken a lot of work to get to this point, but I think it will be worth it.
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 08-31-2017
RE: Alien Narcissus - JAWS - 09-01-2017
Whoh!
Thats impressive work
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 09-01-2017
Thanks Jason!
I'm working on the main rear engine nozzles at the moment.
The originals were cast from a master made by Martin Bower constructed from cut up sections of ABS pipe, but you can see from the rear view that the casts are quite warped.
This leads to the age old "do I replicate the asymmetry and inconsistencies, or build a more idealised version?" question.
Not sure of the answer to that yet...
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 09-04-2017
Rear engine nozzles located and matched to the reference photos:
[attachment=18811]
[attachment=18812]
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 09-11-2017
Making progress on modelling the kit parts and carefully matching each one to multiple reference photos to ensure they are perfectly located:
[attachment=18823]
The lower engine recess so far - still lots of tweaks needed and a couple of parts left to model:
[attachment=18822]
RE: Alien Narcissus - Ralphee - 09-13-2017
Insane dedication......really fun too see those overlays on the physical prop, some wonderful use of donor parts on this one, too.
Lee
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 09-13-2017
Thank you Lee.
Yeah, this model has become a bit of an obsession for me!
Its very satisfying when I add parts now and see that they line up to the reference photos.
Now that the bulk of the work is done, adding the details just goes to serve as confirmation that everything is correct in terms of in dimensions and locations.
More to come...
RE: Alien Narcissus - Ralphee - 09-14-2017
Your obsession shows, and its quite astounding, look forward to seeing more
Lee
RE: Alien Narcissus - JAWS - 09-18-2017
Great stuff. Just love what your doing.
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 09-18-2017
Cheers guys - I appreciate the interest and support.
It can be a bit tedeius to say the least, moving parts fractions of mm's at a time and rechecking against the refs.
Knowing that there are others interested in the work onlyhelps to give me a push to get it done (especially now, with the bulk of the work completed).
With the original model lost, this method was the only real way I could see, to get a completely accurate reconstruction.
It's suprising that it's not used more. I know SteveStarkiller has a thread on the RPF where he modelled the interior of the Falcon using the perspective matching technique, and his result are stunning.
Looking forward to finishing the digital model off and being able to bring it into reality!
More up dates when I can...
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 11-16-2017
Underside engine bay modelled and kit parts positioned over the references.
[attachment=18994]
RE: Alien Narcissus - Satazius - 11-17-2017
wowza.
RE: Alien Narcissus - Tsophika - 11-17-2017
Excellent work.
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 11-19-2017
Thanks guys
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 11-27-2017
Work continues on fitting the rest of the kit parts to the underside of the ship.
[attachment=19023]
[attachment=19024]
[attachment=19025]
[attachment=19026]
RE: Alien Narcissus - Apophis - 11-28-2017
excellent work!
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 12-12-2017
Thanks Apophis!
Working my way around the ship, I have been modelling each of the kit part as I have needed them.
What I didn't do at the time, was give each of those parts a meaningful name *Doh!*
So, for the past week, I have been going back over all the kit parts and IDing them to give them a name that includes the kit manufacturer, scale and model name.
This will help with part maps later, if I need them.
It's really quite deceptive how much detailing is actually on this model (250 different kit parts modelled so far).
With the majority of that now done, I have managed to finish off most of the underside:
[attachment=19183]
[attachment=19184]
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 12-17-2017
Next up is the area in front of the lower engines:
[attachment=19202]
Here is my current progress:
[attachment=19203]
It's taken quite a few hours to dial in just this single piece, as I needed to match the way it has been modified/cut - which as it turms out is just off square and also rotated (not by much, but it is defintely there).
After all that work, it's reassuring to notice that it's location is verified on another reference shot (which I hadn't even noticed that you could see it from):
[attachment=19204]
[attachment=19205]
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 01-02-2018
Happy New Year All!
Hope you're having a great break.
I took a little time off myself, so not much progress to report.
I did manage to finish off modelling and positioning the last of the kit parts for the underside of the ship (apart from the Tyrell P34 shrouds, but I'm awaiting arrival of the kit to scan - more info on that below).
Here is a simple rendering of the ship as of today:
[attachment=19256]
I'm currently in the process of acquiring the kits needed for the ship.
As it stands, I have a list of 30 (not including any that are used on the cockpit).
Unfortunately, some of them are quite rare and hard to get.
I will be looking at around $2K for just one copy of each (and multiple copies of some kits were used).
I have a side project currently on the go which has seen me construct (cobble together) a photographic light tent/box.
The purpose of which is for me to 3D scan all of the kits (by way of photogrammetry), and create exact digital versions of the parts used (well, thats the plan anyway)
My current methodology, of using calipers is fine and works, but I want them to be exact.
More to come soon.
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 01-07-2018
For the past few days I have been working on the underside engines.
As it turns out, this has been no simple task...
The original engines were hand carved by Martin Bower in Jelutong wood, and then molded and cast in fibreglass.
Trying to match all the different angles of this hand carved element has taken considerable work (and many iterations).
I'm at a point now though, where I believe that they are a good representation of the originals as they fit nicely over the reference images :
[attachment=19287]
[attachment=19288]
[attachment=19289]
[attachment=19290]
The detailing on the engines is still to be finalised.
RE: Alien Narcissus - darkimmitator - 01-08-2018
Mind boggling work . Damn !!!
RE: Alien Narcissus - Tsophika - 01-08-2018
Awesome.
C
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 01-22-2018
Thanks Guys!
With most of the work done on the underside, my attention has been focused on the top of the ship (and also obtaining copies of the vintage model kits that were used).
I have continued to add kit parts as well as locating the holes that were added to numerous places about the ship.
I will also be adding all the scored lines that appear on some of the panels too.
These have all been matched to the reference photos by going back and forth between the model and Sketchup in order to get it as exact as I can.
The technique works well and has allowed me to discover a few things that were not immediately obvious.
An example:
The part circled comes from the Tamiya 1/35 M16 and comes as a single piece, so I assumed it was simply glued in place as is.
[attachment=19320]
When I inserted it into the 3D model, it just didn't seem to match.
When I looked further into it, I noticed that the Tamiya 1/35 8rad part that it fits into, has a small raised bar on the base where this part sits:
[attachment=19321]
If I cut the M16 piece into two parts (which is also done elsewhere on the ship), and then place one at the lower level (a difference of just 1.5mm), then it matches perfectly to the photos
![[Image: smile.png]](https://www.therpf.com/images/styles/smilies/smile.png)
[attachment=19322] [attachment=19323]
I know its only a small thing, but it's rewarding to be able to "reverse engineer" what a modeller did some thirty odd years ago.
There have been quite a few "Eureka" moments like that too!
As for progress, here are some overlays of where the model currently sits:
[attachment=19324] [attachment=19325] [attachment=19326]
and a couple of quick renders:
[attachment=19327] [attachment=19328]
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 01-29-2018
Work continued this week on adding kit parts to the top front half of the ship.
It's been tedius work at times, adding each individual part and then moving/rotating it to match all the reference images that it appears on.
Lots of back and forth, and incremential movements of fractions of a mm...
Getting close to being done though, with just the cluster of parts below the windows on each side to do.
I'm pretty happy with how everything is fitting together.
Here are the overlays showing the current progress:
[attachment=19331]
[attachment=19332]
[attachment=19333]
And a render:
[attachment=19334]
On a side note, I happened to learn about a great little (free/donationware) program this week for anyone who regularly uses reference images.
It's called PureRef
Very cool and worth checking out if your into building replicas.
I wish I'd known about it when I started this project...
RE: Alien Narcissus - Satazius - 01-30-2018
Amazing work. Great fun to see your progress. And HOT tip on that reference software. Sorting and categorizing my Galactica ref images was an enormous exercise in manual alias creation/sorting, LOL. This looks like a way more powerful and flexible way to do it.
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 01-30-2018
Thanks Satazius.
I know exactly what you mean! I have multiple folders of "sorted" references.
I happened to stumble onto a youtube tutorial for Blender last week (and I don't even use Blender lol!) and he happened to mentioned it.
Had a look and was really impressed. I will be using it from here on in.
Glad someone else can benefit too!
RE: Alien Narcissus - JAWS - 02-01-2018
Great work.
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 02-01-2018
Thanks Jason.
I think I might refrain from posting any more overlays as they probably look all the same to everyone else lol.
Just finished off the front half of the ship now and will start working on the back.
I have the last few kit ID's to sort out - on the final stretch!
Cheers
RE: Alien Narcissus - Turrican - 02-03-2018
What a hugh work on all this tiny details.
So if you are finished with the 3D model, would it be possible to 3D print it as well?
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 02-03-2018
Thanks Turrican.
I still have the back top half of the ship to go, so not finished quite yet!
But, yes 3D printing is an option. I will upload it to Shapeways to get an idea of cost - it might not work out ecomonical to do, but we'll see.
I was thinking a similar size model to the Halcyon kit (which would be 1/6 studio scale)?
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 02-05-2018
Progress continues...
The top front half of the ship is now done bar a few missing kit parts still to ID.
A couple of renders, along side comparison reference images:
[attachment=19345]
[attachment=19346]
Work has now started on the back half, with plenty still to do.
The engines will no doubt be a challenge, and lots of kit parts on either side too.
The centre "opening/hatch" section is the first to be tackled.
Progress so far:
[attachment=19347]
Purchasing of the required vintage kits also continues in the background...
I now have about 70% in hand (and a much lighter wallet to prove it!
![[Image: surprised.png]](https://www.therpf.com/images/styles/smilies/surprised.png)
).More updates soon...
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 02-13-2018
Most of the kit parts have now been modelled and placed on the bow of the ship.
I'm really happy with the match against the reference images.
The overlay shows that it is very close to perfect.
Port:
[attachment=19390]
Starboard :
[attachment=19391]
Bow render:
[attachment=19388]
This leaves the EMA tubing on both sides (and the few kit parts that sit on top of it) to do, and of course the main engines...
On the kit buying front, I've now managed to purchase 90% of the required parts, with just a couple of kits still eluding me...
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 03-29-2018
Had a small break from working on the ship.
Got pretty busy with "real" work, but it's good to have a breather and recharge the batteries, so to speak!
I have all but 4 of the kits I need to complete the ship now.
I spent three days going through all 26 of the ones I do have, and scanning them at 600 DPI.
It was also a good opportunity to scrutinize them closely and see if I could pick out any kit part ID's that I may have missed (and I did manage to find a couple too).
I also noticed that I'd bought a couple of the wrong variants of a couple of the kits, so will need to repurchase those
![[Image: sad.png]](https://www.therpf.com/images/styles/smilies/sad.png)
As for the model, I have manged to finish off the EMA tubing on the rear and the last few kit part there too.
[attachment=19419]
My focus over these past three days has been the top main engines.
As with the underside ones, they were hand carved (by Martin Bower out of Jelutong wood), then molded and cast in fibreglass.
The organic nature of these shapes has made it a real challenge to accurately digitally replicate them.
I wanted more than to get it just "close" and I think persistence has paid off.
After many hours work, I'm now confident that these are a very close match to the originals.
[attachment=19420]
[attachment=19421]
[attachment=19422]
[attachment=19423]
So what's left to do...
I need to await the arrival of those final few kits I'm missing to allow me to accurately model those parts.
I also have a handful of unkown ID's to see if I can identify.
I will need to model the Tyrrell shrouds that goes around the underside engines (and that will be a challenge in itself!)
BUT, the end is in sight!
RE: Alien Narcissus - mikeg - 03-31-2018
Wow, this is really impressive!
Nice work.
RE: Alien Narcissus - Tsophika - 03-31-2018
Have you thought about posting which parts you're needing to find? I'd be glad to take a look.
Craig
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 03-31-2018
(03-31-2018, 12:52 AM)mikeg Wrote: Wow, this is really impressive!
Nice work.
Thanks very much Mike - much appreciated!
(03-31-2018, 10:23 AM)Tsophika Wrote: Have you thought about posting which parts you're needing to find? I'd be glad to take a look.
Craig
Thats a great idea Craig - thank you! I'd be grateful for any help on the last few piece ID's
Some of the references I have for the missing parts are pretty vague, and thats half the problem.
I have modelled what I think they look like, and being able to overlay it on top of the reference images means that it's accurate to the size.
I'll put together a post of the missing pieces in the hope you (or anyone else) can spot something I haven't been able too!
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 04-29-2018
The final hurdle I needed to overcome was to create an accurate digital copy of the Tyrrell cockpit shrouds.
These come from the 1:12 model of the 6 wheel F1 racing car and are the parts that surround the driver.
[attachment=19499]
As you can see, they are very organic in shape, and there is just no way for me to be able to accurately create them in CAD.
My solution was to use photogrammetry.
This would also be a good test of my original idea to 3D "scan" all the needed donors.
I built myself an inexpensive light tent using PVC reticulation pipe and a roll of tracing paper I had lying around (to diffuse the light).
I grabbed 3 cheap desk lights from Ikea and some 100W LED "daylight" globes.
I used some black cloth as a base and backdrop - this allowed my to have a featureless background so that I could rotate the subject on a turntable rather than have to move around it to take the required photos.
You need lots of photos...
For these two parts (photgraphed in one go) I took 70 shots.
For my equipment, I'm using an old Nikon D300 with a 24-70 2.8 lens.
Photogrammetry has some limitations on what you can capture. Two of the "no-no's" are shiny objects, and those that have no detail.
Shiny, plain plastic model parts are generally not a good candidate!.
To get around this, you need to coat the subject to stop both refelections and add some "features" that the software can match to.
You can buy purpose made sprays for the job, but they are expensive. I went with a homebrew option which I'd read about - talc/baby powder mixed into Isopropyl alcohol.
It worked surprisingly well. The IPA evaporates quickly leaving a thin coat of talc and the IPA doesn't harm the plastic. The talc just washes off in water afterwards.
Here are the parts in my light tent, sitting ready on a turntable after being sprayed with the talc solution:
[attachment=19500]
Here is the result after importing the photos into the software and creating a 3D model.
[attachment=19501]
and cleaned up and converted to a solid body model.
[attachment=19502]
I have to say, I'm really impressed with the results, which are confirmed by how well it matched to the reference photos once I added it to the model.
The Tyrell pieces were then trimmed to match the origianal model with styrene and kit parts also added.
Here is the match to the refeence after it was done
[attachment=19503]
This gives me a lot of confidence going forward for scanning the rest of the donors at a later stage.
......and with that, the model is done.
Here is a final set of overlays of the completed model:
[attachment=19504][attachment=19505][attachment=19506]
[attachment=19507][attachment=19508][attachment=19509]
[attachment=19510][attachment=19511][attachment=19512][attachment=19513]
There are 625 individual kit parts from 30 different kits.
Of the 625, 617 have been ID'd.
I may not know the origin of the unknown parts yet, but being able to model "over" the reference photos means that I have very accurate "substitutes" for those 8 parts in the meantime.
99% kit part accuracy. I think I am OK with that
and lastly, some rendered/ CAD model images.
[attachment=19514][attachment=19515]
[attachment=19516][attachment=19517]
[attachment=19518][attachment=19519]
RE: Alien Narcissus - RU41 - 04-30-2018
Stunning work!!
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 04-30-2018
Thank you!
RE: Alien Narcissus - Flixen - 05-01-2018
really impressive work!
especially the Photogrammetry part!!!
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 05-01-2018
Thanks Flixen.
It's still a bit of a learning curve with regards to the photogrammetry, but I'm really pleased with the results.
The RealityCapture software I used is quite amazing (and fast too!).
RE: Alien Narcissus - NS4 - 05-06-2018
It took a little work, but I have managed to covert a copy of my CAD model into a single solid file.
[attachment=19520] [attachment=19521]
I'm going to look into the possibilty of getting a scaled version of the model 3D printed.
I need to study the design guidlines on Shapeways to see if it is achievable or not...